That it is human ? racial? with different properties is complete nonsense. Why is it nevertheless counterproductive to remove the concept of race from the Basic Law? With their argument racism. Structural problems need structural solutions! (Atrium 2021), Natasha A. Kelly makes an important contribution to clarifying such fundamental issues. The doctoral sociologist of communication has dealt with Afro-German culture scientifically and in her award-winning debut film Millis Awakening also artistically. Now her latest book is about trying to agree on a universal definition of racism, contrary to the current culture of discussion, in which different sides work with different concepts: racism is structural and not a mere question of personal concern. Because, Kelly said, that agreement is still pending. Natasha A. Kelly discusses with Jena Samura how the anti-racism debate in Germany is still in its infancy and how solution-oriented measures can be developed together.